[916Mak]

I've never owned selvage denim. I've never owned a pair of jeans over 40 dollars. But I was wondering what selvedge denim feels like and looks like in general. Does it feel any different? Smooth or rough? All I know that selvedge is durable. And how would you know if you owned selvedge? Like those gap jeans in the closet could easily be selvedge and I wouldn't know it. Thanks in advance to those that answer and reply

[MAGIC: THE GATHERING]

actually there's a lot of myths about selvedge denim vs. non-selvedge. depending on the quality of both, they can feel and look exactly alike. the best and most common way to see if your jeans are selvedge is to look inside the leg and check for this:



*a pair can still be made of selvedge denim, even though it does not have the above.

those gap jeans are actually selvedge denim, but of a low quality.

there's a good thread on styleforum about this topic and pacioli's post at the end is on point.

SF - how important is the selvage line? - Style Forum

Originally Posted by pacioli

Hi Mauro. Thank you for inviting me to participate in this interesting discussion. Sorry I didn't see your batwings signal sooner. While I am by no means an expert I will try my best to contribute to this thread.

I think the selvage VS non-selvage debate has many views but at the end of the day it is not that complex if you think in terms of what you want the denim to be. After all denim is just cloth that is meant to be made into garments or fabric articles (eg, denim covers).

If what you want from denim is purely aesthetics then there is little shuttle loom goods can offer the fashionista that modern looms cannot. There are exceptions of course (eg, antique American shuttle looms, according to experienced cloth masters, can weave practically anything given strong yarns, though inefficiently, compared to modern rapier and airjet looms). The only asterisk here is there is loom chatter created from shuttle loom weaving motion (especially during the "beat up" motion that slams the fill into cloth body) that is often mimicked (unsuccessfully) through yarn programming. This loom chatter creates many interesting characteristics in the cloth that can be labeled "defects." Those "defects" that do not significantly affect the tensile and tear strength of the cloth can pass as being beautiful character. A bit of cross hatch (again, often mimicked by yarn programming) is sometimes a result of loom chatter. I'll do a blog post on cloth defects from American loomed goods and link it on this forum one of these days...straight out of some very old books I found. The point here is unless you are studying the denim it is not easy to just look at a piece of cloth and just say what kind of loom it was woven from (unless telltale signs are present...frayed edge, blatantly obvious OE yarn, etc for wide goods; closed selvage, loom chatter, certain defects, etc for selvage goods).

On the other hand if your interest in denim goes beyond just aesthetics but wanders into the realm of its histories, nuances, and social/cultural implications then the selvage line will have special meaning. It is a nod of recognition to how denim was woven in those days when jeans served as an armor of sorts for hard-laborers. Days when denim was expected to perform.

For these of us selvage's importance revolves more around appreciating the history and nostalgia rather than the strength of the finished cloth. It is also a way of supporting these looms and their operators. Think how purists insist on pure cotton threads instead of poly core threads despite the pure cotton option is significantly weaker. With that said it is important to keep in mind the shuttle looms I've worked with REQUIRE a strong yarn to successfully weave usable denim. This fact almost always results in strong denim (that is denim that passes tensile/tear strength standards with flying colors). Rapiers and airjets can weave the cheapest OE yarns on the market (resulting in denim with blowouts after a couple of wears...and let's not get into how it looks).

This last point brings us to the point about denim strength. While many factors theoretically affect strength (weight, construction--that is how many ends and picks per inch, finish, etc) the most important element is yarn and cotton. I am not a yarn or cotton expert but everyone knows that a strong yarns requires good cotton of consistent and long fibers ring spun at the correct twist multiples. Put good yarns in a balanced construction and both vintage and modern looms can weave strong cloth.

I hope this was somewhat useful. I tried not to sound too much like a textbook but I'm sure many of you would not mind a denim textbook at all. Be sure to let me know if you find a good one.

[mikecch]

There's is no single distinctive feel or look of selvedge denim - it can vary quite a lot, and will change the more you wear/wash it.

I prefer selvedge for several reasons, but ultimately (ignoring my limited knowledge of the technical details of denim construction and the historical aspects of the repro trend :P) it's because my inner-child thinks selvedge looks cool and sets my pair of jeans apart.

From the little experiences I had, I've found that jeans made with selvedge denim are crafted with more attention to quality & detail.

[Atzec]

yup, o think selvedge looks pretty cool and makes you feel like you have something more original.

it also indicates, that the designer was caring about detals and in the end zjere are no losening threads.

[mikecch]

Haha, just had a few pairs of jeans shortened by Union-special chain-stitching (yoropikos, SCs, SdAs...), so I've got bits of selvedge edges flying everywhere in my room...

Mmm, after the hemming is undone, it's suprizingly easy to make the inseam come apart =0 That explains the broken inseam I saw on a pair of Samurai's after only 5 months of wear?

916Mak, perhaps I could mail you a small piece of selvedge denim? =P

[flyindarkness]

yeah. i have to agree that selvage != best quality.
but it is kinda cool. i dig it.

[arabesque]

I like selvedge denim for the attention to detail that usually goes into making the jeans. But yeah, not all selvedge denim is created equally.

[mikecch]

Agreed, not all are equal >>> Gap selvedge...

[JacobAhlin]

what about this gap selvage... i have never seen it. seems like big time fake :P can anyone explain?

[arabesque]

I've never seen a pair either, but they're probably not fake or anything, haha. It just seems like more corners are cut in the process of making cheaper selvedge jeans. I bought a pair of Academi jeans earlier this week for $20, and a rivet popped out on my first day wearing them. -_-